Penalty for Dropping Player(s) Under Contract

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Guys,
This item has to be settled ASAP. Penalty for dropping player under contract. In the rules I have it at 25%. That is too low as a general blanket rule covering the entire season. The rules were originally written using 50% but I decided to change it for some reason. I'm going to suggest a compromise.

If you drop a player under contract, in season, before the trade deadline, you're responsible for 50% of the contract that season and 25% of the contract for any remaining seasons under contract.

If you drop a player under contract, in season, following the trade deadline, you're responsible for 25% of the contract for the remainder of the season and 25% of the contract for any remaining seasons.

The rule for dropping a Prospect player contract does not change. If you release a player with a PP contract, you will only pay 25% of that contract until the end of the current season.

You may not bid on a player that you have released for a period of 30 days.

[Deleted]

I sent something to Scott in an email, he asked me to post it on the board....

"I have a real problem with this being done. I understand that not all our rules are finalized but this was set then talked about and changed, now were changing this again AFTER we've already been handing out multi year contracts? I mean this is no different than you saying after careful consideration we've decided to make the salary cap 150 million, your going to have to go release some people. I offered contracts based on the rules in place to just change it now is wrong on so many levels".

This isn't tweaking a rule this changing fundamentally how we manage our salary caps, to be doing this after people have already handed out long term contracts is unfair and plain wrong.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Just saying, there is ONLY one change here. Would be the 1st year, in season, before trade deadline. 50% of contract. Everything else stays the same. 25% of contract.

If 50% gets voted down then I'm going for 33%, which I know my co-commishes support.

By the way, how many players are we siging that are going to be dropped that are in multi-year contracts? I'm sure many of us will try to deal them away and get something in return, or there'll be a handful. In my opinion, not enough to impact how we offer contracts at all. Steve, I understand your concern and thanks for voicing it.

This is why I put it up for league vote. I'm no faceless tyrant, am I?

[hanny]

I agree with Steve. Rosters are almost completely filled per rules agreed upon. It sets horrible precedent to then change the rules after the fact. If a fundamental rule is to change, each team should be able to go back and change their roster if they want.

This should not be up for vote in my opinion.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Really? Just trying to understand this huge concern. I am not trying to change anything that's really going to affect how we put our teams together or how the league runs.

At this point I'm hoping 2 people won't be upset in this league rather than 13 others in approval. That's probably not healthy on my part. Shall I just delete the poll Hanny and Steve?

[Deleted]

I say we introduce this inseason rule next year as a compromise. I don't see why its that big of a thing to plan around though in the first place. I came to this league thinking from a real baseball perspective. You pay out your contracts and if you need cap space, you trade players. Dropping players should have a stiff penalty but still give some benefit to the owner.

The 25% for each additional year needs to be changed to at least 33% (probably 40% at a minimum) just to keep the integrity of the rest of the rules (allowing 40% variation in AAS).

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

To be honest, this is what I intended it to be when I wrote the rules (as it's used in another league that I'm really familiar with), but I went low.

Any player dropped before the trade deadline still has part of his contract count against the cap in the following manner: Current year: 90%, Next year: 60%, All future years after: 30%.
If the player is dropped after the trade deadline, then the hit to the cap changes to 75%, 50%, 25%, respectively.


Honestly, this is not a big deal. I'm with Andrew on the compromise. Begin it for 2014.

[bxm701]

I agree with the principle that rules should not be changed after the fact unless its to close a loophole or something.

With that said, Scott is right - this only changes the first season, everything else stays at 25%.

I'm not saying I'd vote yes necessarily, but I don't see the big concern.

[Drew (Chicago Blue Jays)]

I am indifferent on the actual numbers, but I agree with not changing the rules after contracts have been handed out. If we want to change now for next season, I would be in support of that.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't have cared if we made contracts 100% guaranteed, I don't like this based on the principle of it. It was decided then changed, this would be the 3rd time!! You cant do stuff like that. Maybe it would have changed who I kept I don't know all I know is I was told if I drop someone it's 25%, again I didn't care what it was I just want it to be consistent.

People keep saying "it's not that big of deal" if it's not then don't change it. I'd really prefer when this stuff gets put to vote that the case be made on why it's being changed, what it's trying to prevent and what's happend to make this change needed.

I'm sure for more than 1/2 the teams in the league this isn't a big deal but for teams that kept 2 franchises with high payrolls it can be. I'm not saying I have some great plan to start releasing people but I made decisions based on the rules in place.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

I want everyone to vote. Per Andrew's thought it would be to start next season. I am not changing rules for this season since we've already started.

So if it passes, it would be 50% of contract 2014 and only 25% each year thereafter of a contract's duration.

Any player released this season is 25% responsibility.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards

[Deleted]

I promise im not trying to be difficult here I just dont understand why it needs to change and be a different set of rules for 2014 than every other year?? Why are you trying to change it? Regardless of what year you do it, it's not right. I picked the players I did based on a bunch of factors how much $$ I get back if I dropped someone was one of those factors, and my decisions were based on the rules in place. Just like when we changed how we calculated salaries, this affects those decisions. I mean I would have restructured some of my FA contracts differently had I known this.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Steve, forget it. This is a non issue. Nothing's changing. I wrote the rules and I'm not happy with this part of it. 25% is WAY TOO LOW. If whoever bought Teixeira for $20.5 million and they decide to release him because he sucks, then they only have to pay $5M something this season. That's a crock, but my bad. I should have stuck with 50% which is what was originally in the rules. I decided to change them to make it lower for whatever reason. I think I wanted less guys questioning. Now I've only made more issues.

Case closed for now. We'll see how it goes. Maybe someone else can bring it up for a vote next year.

[Drew (Chicago Blue Jays)]

I think if we are going to change it for next year, then we should do it now. Because moves will be made going forward that will affect it. I am fine for changing it for '14. There will be plenty of room to make moves to adjust your cap going forward. This year needs to be set, because people have done 1 year contracts for a reason. In the principle of the rule Scott, I agree with you. There needs to be a penalty for bidding 5 million dollars on Frank Francisco. I understand that. Free agency has no integrity if you can just sign and drop guys nonchalant. I just don't think we should change it for '13.

[bxm701]

I agree with Drew.

Non-issue for me either way. But this is why we have votes. Don't need to please everyone Scott.

[xkaliber17]

I don't care if it's 25,33, or 50%. I just want to be able to drop someone right now to clear up some payroll so I can bid. I have no problem with me being prohibited from bidding on the player I dropped

[Deleted]

I agree with what everyone is saying, I think Drew makes great points. What I guess I don't understand is this need to change it for 1 year. If everyone agrees 25% is too low, then why does it only change for one year and it wouldn't be the same every year?

I would say let's change it but allow everyone to adjust there FA contracts they have won if they wish. I'll be honest I was less focused on the coming years salaries due to the fact I knew I could drop people if I needed to at 25%. Not saying I would but I'd like the opportunity to move some $$ between years if I feel I need to based on this change.

[bxm701]

My understanding is this isn't for 1 year, it's STARTING in 2014, not only for 2014.

And regarding changing contracts, I assume you just mean per year money, not AAS or years or total right? If so, I'm already doing this and will be giving commish changes shortly. He said it was ok so long as AAS etc didn't change.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

The changing of salary per years (not changing AAS though) was supposed to be done 24 hours after winning a player. Period. This was not designed to be some open ended, move money around, at anytime during this draft. If that was the case I could be moving money around and still bidding on guys that I had to bow out of.

All players and all year to year salaries must be on your ProBoards page because Fantrax only shows 2013.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

And I don't mean 2014 ONLY. I mean it would begin in 2014. Moving forward, the first year a player's under contract, the drop penalty would be 50% and each year after 25%. If I sign a player in 2016 to a 3 year deal, and I decide I have to drop him later in 2016, then I'd have to pay 50% of his contract in 2016 and then only 25% in 2017 and 2018.

Again, the 50% would only be for the first year of a player's contract, regardless if it's 2014 or 2020. Every year after the first year would be 25%. Sorry if this wasn't clear. I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

[Deleted]

Sorry I thought this was about changing for 1 season not the first year of a contract no issue then my mistake

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

OK, so it seems three people still need to vote on this, but the rule would not begin until 2014. If you drop any player under contract during this upcoming 2013, you'll be responsible for 25% of the salary for this year and any remaining years. If this rule passes (which it looks like it's going to) then starting in 2014, you'd be responsible for 50% of a salary in the first year you release a player under contract and then 25% each additional season he may be signed for.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Just bringing this conversation back to the forefront. This motion did pass 10 to 5. That means, if we're all understanding this correctly, for any player dropped/released in season, you'd be on the hook for 50% of the contract that current season (upcoming 2014 for our purposes now), and then 25% for any additional seasons that player might be under contract (2015 and beyond).

[Drew (Chicago Blue Jays)]

What about this offseason? 25 for the coming season or 50?

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Should probably be 25% for coming season. Once the season begins and games have been played, then the 50% current season kicks in. Does that seem fair?