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Post by Drew (Chicago Blue Jays) on Jun 30, 2015 7:15:36 GMT -5
Chicago Blue Jays trade:
Michael Morse, MIA 15- 4M, 16- 4.2M
Angel Pagan, SF 15- 2.1M
and prospects Kyle Crick, Giovanny Urshela, Peter O'Brien, Blake Snell, Jake Bauers, Mark Zagunis, and Cody Anderson
to Seattle Braves for
Felix Hernandez, SEA 15-17: 15M
and Jose Altuve, Hou 15- 1M, 16- 2M, 17- 3M
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Post by Jason (Seattle Braves) on Jun 30, 2015 13:22:35 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by Scott (Boston Padres) on Jul 1, 2015 16:12:19 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Upon first look by me and a couple other owners, this deal is not necessarily a completely lopsided deal (favoring Chicago with Altuve/King Felix) but it basically is a case of quantity over quality going back to Seattle. I am not approving this deal right away, but it's not being vetoed either. I have a couple thoughts that I need to put out there.
In Diamond Duos II we had a trade recently that I didn't veto but asked the owner giving prospects to add another prospect (agreeable by both owners) to the package. The initial deal was:
Houston Giants send:
Mark Appel (minors)
Matt Duffy (minors)
Yangervis Solarte 15: $0.75M
Matt Cain 15-17:$20M annually, 18:$21M club option ($7.5M buyout)
Toronto Brewers send:
Edwin Encarnacion 15: $10M 16:$10M club option ($2M buyout)
Jose Bautista 15: $14M 16: $14M club option ($1M buyout)
Houston Giants added SEA prospect Jordy Lara to the deal which I was OK with and the trade passed. I see this Altuve/Felix for prospects/Morse/Pagan as a similar type of deal. Big difference is that Altuve is on a very friendly contract for the next 3 years too, where E5 and Joey Bats are not.
I am inclined to ask Chicago Drew to substitute a couple higher end prospects for 2 that are in the package. But I can't determine who would be replaced. Crick is a top prospect (and has been for some time now) for SF. O'Brien is coming soon for Arizona. Cody Anderson is just now having initial success for Cleveland. Urshela's replaced Chisenhall for the time being at 3B in Cleveland and has been a mixed bag so far. Snell is on a roll in the Minors and increasing his value with each start. That leaves Bauers (Mariners' 15th ranked prospect according to Baseball America preseason) and Zagunis (Cubs' 15th ranked prospect according to Baseball America preseason) who are both lower level prospects and too far away from knowing what they can potentially be in the bigs. Swapping out two higher ranked prospects here could be one solution.
Another thing that I'd like to get from both Drew and Jason here are their thoughts and reasoning for the deal. Moving forward, at least beginning post-2015 season, I'd like to incorporate this process. Here's how it works in one of my other deep dynasty leagues:
After agreeing on a trade, one team will post the deal in the trade forum. The posting team will post the details of the trade (all players, salaries, picks, etc.) AND a description of why their team accepts the trade. The other team will then reply with a post of their acceptance of the trade ALONG WITH a description of why they accept the trade. These two posts are the only two posts that should be present in the trade thread. Any other trade discussion by other teams' owners may be done in a separate discussion thread.
I hope all parties find this discussion helpful and in the spirit of keeping a good balance for our league now and in the coming seasons. I welcome all thoughts but let's do it in another discussion thread if needed and I'll come back to post the outcome/final deal in this thread. Thanks!
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Post by Jason (Seattle Braves) on Jul 1, 2015 16:21:08 GMT -5
My thoughts on the deal:
Altuve is a nice player with a low OBP, a hamstring strain and , no power. Ultimately, you take out an incredible 2014 season and he is an average player
My SP rotation on paper is the best rotation in the league. I should be dominating all pitching cats. Felix, Lester, Teheran, Wood, Sanchez, Paxton, Iwakuma. I have a team ERA of 4.06 and 1.3 WHIP. Both bottom 3 in the league. Every one of these guys has been a shell of his 2014 self.
At some point, I would rather just be bad with a load of prospects than be bad with high salary players. And while all these guys could turn it around and give me a monster 2nd half, my offense is obliterated by injuries
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Post by Jason (Seattle Braves) on Jul 1, 2015 16:27:31 GMT -5
Jake Bauers is a 19 year old in AA
Mark Zagunis has a .443 OBP in High A
I'll certainly take Franklin Barreto and/or Phillip Ervin in addition to the other guys to make this work
**Commish note - Thanks for the clarification on Bauers. Didn't realize he was already in AA. Good to know. I just pulled a Gold numbered autograph of his in 2015 Topps Pro Debut.
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Post by Drew (Chicago Blue Jays) on Jul 1, 2015 17:58:53 GMT -5
My reasoning: My team has a 2 year window of competitiveness (due to escalating salaries and aging veterans. I need a legit ace and a 2nd baseman. I've done pretty well mining for up and coming prospects (see Bauers/Zagunis/Matz/Urias/N. Williams/etc) so I feel comfortable dealing a large number of prospects with the confidence that I can re-stock.
During our initial negotiations, I offered Jason 2 players that were more highly rated on most pre-season lists, but he did his own evaluations and requested Zagunis and Bauers instead. I am not completely opposed to offering another player in place of one of the current prospects, but prospect list gazers might have liked the list better with the guys I initially offered. Jason prefers the two mentioned above, presumably for their OBP skills and power potential.
There have been plenty of unbalanced trades in this league and DDII, which is in the nature of dynasty leagues because people can have completely different motivations. Depth is important in this league (as Jason is finding out with his current injuries). It is a part of the reason that Andrew has done so well in each year of the league. The STL prospect system that he started with had incredible depth (and OAK wasn't bad either) and he has done an excellent job of re-stocking so that he gets contributions from guys coming up from the minors (Wong, Semien, Burns, Kiermaier, etc.) That seems to be Jason's goal with this trade and I am willing to give up that depth due to my confidence in beating other owners to the punch on prospects down the road.
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Post by Scott (Boston Padres) on Jul 2, 2015 18:46:13 GMT -5
Thank you both very much for posting your thoughts/reasoning on both sides of this deal. I also want to thank Andrew, Chuck and Henry for providing some feedback as well. Maybe we're looking at next year's Trade Review Committee?
At this point I feel comfortable that both sides make a decent argument for the deal to go through as is. This deal in no way makes the league overall unbalanced and I don't believe it's too onesided one way or the other. Can you make arguments that one team got the better of it for now? Sure. Do you know right now how all these prospects will turn out? No. Ranking prospects and projecting future performance is all in the eye of the beholder and we each have our own way of doing it, and I'll like one prospect more than another guy does for whatever reason.
Having said all this, Commish Approved. I will process on Fantrax either tonight or tomorrow. Please update ProBoards rosters once that's done.
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Post by Scott (Boston Padres) on Jul 3, 2015 7:56:34 GMT -5
Processed on Fantrax. Jason, you have to make a lot of moves to open up Minors spots for these prospects you get in this deal and the 3 from Philly Astros.
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