Moncada

[Chuck (Philadelphia Astros)]

I would like to open up a discussion on the status of Moncada. Should he be considered an un-restricted Free Agent ? My thoughts are that this is a rare occurrence, first of its kind. This player was on my mind since early November as a potential minor league player that would have been picked number one overall in our minor league draft this year. I was still planning on him being a potential Free agent signing for my team. I would like him to be added to the Free Agent pool. I think he could potentially be one of the highest payed player in our league. Any further thoughts ?

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

It all has to do with the timing of the signing. We are/were already done with RFA when Moncada signed. We are still in the middle of our preseason free agency with UFA beginning later this week. Everyone is absolutely free to discuss this but all signs should point to him being eligible for in-season blind bidding FA offers if he makes the majors (a-la Rusney Castillo in 2014).

It's just not fair to all teams in the league to make him eligible for Unrestricted Free Agency now that many teams have already spent or not spent during RFA.

Anyone else? I am not opposed to further discussion here. We tweaked the International signee rules last year but now we still have a situation that's kind of unclear.

[Deleted]

I'm fine either way, to be honest. I'm self interested and I have the available cap space to make a move. Curious why waiting until an in-season bid would limit Chuck's (or anyone else's) ability to acquire Moncada? Is it just because the bidding would be blinded, rather than back-and-forth like through UFA bidding?

And just to be clear, with Moncada not being up until mid-late 2016 at the earliest, does he take up an MLB roster spot right away (thus requiring a 2015/16 MLB salary)?

[Deleted]

I thought we had something similar last year diff with this kid is he isn't going to go to MLB like most international players have. I figured he would be being bid on in our UFA but I also understand why he wouldn't be. I was kind of peeved about Castillo last year but I only have myself to blame for not paying closer attention to the rules.

[Deleted]

Just read Chris's post. My vote is either he doesn't get picked till next minors draft or he's available now in UFA

[Deleted]

I agree with Steve. He could become part of 2016 Minors draft or become a UFA now. Should make for some interesting bidding especially for a player who wont be in the majors for awhile

[Drew (Chicago Blue Jays)]

My opinion is that we should not be able to offer major league contracts to guys who are going to be in the minors. My interpretation would be that he is eligible for next year's minor league draft.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be because most people here seem to have the opinion that Moncada and similar international players should be available as soon as possible but I'll mention it anyway. I just wanted to give an example of how another league I am in has addressed international free agents. First, an international free agent is not eligible to be added to a team by any means until that player has been exposed to a draft within the fantasy league. Meaning that since Moncada was signed just a couple of days ago and we have already completed our minors draft and begun our majors draft before that signing, he is not eligible to be added to a team until next offseason's drafts. This essentially means the biggest international signees will be drafted in the offseason. That offseason could be the year they sign or the year after they sign if they didn't sign early enough. The distinction on which draft they are eligible for is the amount they sign for to their major league club. If an international free agent signs for less than $30M before the minors draft begins, he is eligible for the minors draft. If he signs for $30M or more he can only be drafted in the major league draft and can never be considered a minor league player. In Moncada's case, since he signed for $31.5M, he will not be eligible to be added to a team until next offseason's major league draft. Let's say a lesser known international free agent signs for $13M in December before any draft has taken place. He would be eligible for the minors draft. No one picks him up in either draft. He would then be eligible to be picked up during the season at any point, in my other league. In our league, he would likely be picked up as a free minor leaguer as one of the monthly minor league pick ups if he's picked up at all. If a player signs for more than 30 before the beginning of the majors draft it's very likely he'd be drafted in the major's draft. For explanation's sake let's say he wasn't drafted in the majors draft. He would then be eligible as a free agent to be picked up by anyone during the season as a major leaguer on the waiver wire.

This would translate to our league as such: an international free agent who signs before the minor league draft at less than $30M is eligible for the minors draft. Any international player signing for more than 30 would only be eligible for free agency. Any international free agent who signs before the start of restricted free agency is eligible for free agency (obviously unrestricted free agency, but RFA is the start of free agency which is essentially the start of our major league "draft" and any international player signed before this would be eligible). What they signed for in regards to draft eligibility would be irrelevant because it would be up to the owner to decide if and how much he wants to pay a player and take a salary hit if the player is minors eligible. Any international free agent signed after the start of restricted free agency would not be eligible to be added to a team until after the season is finished. Whether the international player is eligible for the minors draft or free agency following the season would rely on the amount they signed for (greater than or less than $30M) and whether or not they met the threshold of innings pitched or at bats. Meaning even if a player signed for less than $30M but threw 200 innings that year, they would not be minors eligible and wouldn't be eligible for the minors draft.

This can be tweeked to cater our league more effectively. We can do things such as not allow a player to be eligible for free agency if they sign after the start of our league's RFA, but allow them to be picked up via blind bids if they signed for more than $30M or via the monthly minor league pick up if they signed for less than $30M. The latter being awarded to the first to bid, of course.

I'm truly fine with any solution as long as a rule is established so there is no need for further discussion. The only thing I actually favor is that if an international free agent signs after the start of our restricted free agency, we must wait until after free agency is over to attempt to add that player. Whether that addition is made during the season by a blind bid or minor league pick up, or if it is made during the next offseason I'd like it to wait until after free agency is completely over. I just truly favor that once restricted free agency has started our major league rosters should be untouched and the player pool for free agents should be untouched. It's not fair to teams that have traded and dropped players or added players from RFA and had a possibly drastic change to their salary causing them to lose an opportunity to sign a player like Moncada. Waiting until after free agency is over can help eliminate this surprise element and ultimately help balance the competition level within the league creating the fairest opportunities.

[Henry (Cleveland Nationals)]

I'm happy with anything as long as it's consistent. I quite like Ryan's suggestion of having a $ threshold to determine whether it's a majors or minors thing; how does it work for guys from Japan- do they just use the posting fee? And would it include the 100% luxury tax on the signing fee for Moncada?

I personally don't like the idea of someone like Moncada ending up in blind bids, and I don't think it should just be a case that (say a June IFA) is eligible for blind bids if he is called up to the majors after rosters expand. So my gut says everyone who is signed after the beginning of the minors draft goes into the next year's minors draft (or, if people go with Ryan's idea and he is signed for more than $X, into UFA bidding) unless he makes the roster before rosters expand (then he gets blind bid on).

[Deleted]

Feel like it's being over complicated with the $$$ signed for being used. I just want this to be decided and remain consistent going forward.

[Deleted]

Why not just make every international free agent, signed before our Diamond Duos drafts, off limits until the drafts the following year? No exceptions. Rusney Castillo & Despaigne who signed last year are not eligible until 2015 drafts, Moncada not eligible until 2016 drafts, etc. That seems like the easiest, most clear cut way to do this.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Guys, I'm fine with changes and or tweaks for now and moving forward. Whatever the majority of the league agrees to. But we can't go retroactive at this point. I signed Castillo and Despaigne last year, well within our rules, as they had signed with the club AND made the majors that season. I was not the only one who submitted offers for Castillo but was the high offer.

For now and moving forward we need to decide about Moncada, Yoan Lopez, et al. Our UFA is set to begin Friday night.

[Chuck (Philadelphia Astros)]

I am Ok with dealing with International players that sign after our minors draft and Free agency periods until the next years offseason.

[Henry (Cleveland Nationals)]

What about older players- does it make sense for them to go through the draft and not FA? Say a 28 year old Japanese guy with a track record...

[Deleted]

I agree with Chris all Intl players signed after our minors draft are not eligible till the following off season

[Jason (Seattle Braves)]

Feb 24, 2015 22:43:27 GMT -5 Drew (Chicago Blue Jays) said:

My opinion is that we should not be able to offer major league contracts to guys who are going to be in the minors. My interpretation would be that he is eligible for next year's minor league draft.

I agree. He signed a minor league contract.  Why would we treat him any different?

[Jason (Seattle Braves)]

I run a league and in this situation we treat guys like Moncada and Yoan Lopez and Baldoquin, and other IFA that signed minor league deals as minor leaguers. In our case, Baldoquin signed before the draft, so he was eligible to drafted in our minors draft. Lopez signed during, so he cannot be touched until the next season's amateur draft. Kang signed a major league contract, so he went straight into our FA pool.

[Henry (Cleveland Nationals)]

Sounds reasonable to me...

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

And last year during this time, Tanaka signed a Major League deal, right? He was eligible for our major league free agency last year. But he signed before our free agency phase began. Kang also signed before our free agency began so he would be eligible for our upcoming UFA. Is that right?

I still have zero problem with our rule though that would allow any team to "blind bid" and offer a FA contract in-season IF and only IF a guy like Lopez or Moncada make the majors in this first season. Otherwise it's Minors Draft next year.

Whatever we decide the Rules will need to be amended.

[Deleted]

I think the rules are being followed as written

Going forward, not including moncada, I throw my vote for international signings who sign after we start rfa (maybe we can push it back a few weeks), can't be acquired until the next offseason

If they are still minors eligible, they can be drafted. If not, they are free agents. I think these big international guys should be competed for during the offseason, rather than during the regular season when they make their debuts when some teams have their hands tied, and some dont check in the correct week.

That said, we have these rules now and I think scott has followed them and we shouldn't change them mid way through

[Deleted]

I think thsts a good idea what Andrew said. If minors eligible then they go into the minors draft. If playing in MLB then they are FA the next off season. Only issue is going to be if the signing occurs during MLB off season how can you be sure a player will 100% be a MLB the next year? Suppose someone like Kang is expected to make MLB but flops in camp and team decides to send him down instead. Technically he would be a minor drafted player not MLB FA, don't know if Im over complicating it but thought about it

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

So Kang is supposed to be Majors for Pirates. He should be able to go in our UFA. Has to maintain a Majors roster spot for duration of contract, unless released or outrighted, where other teams can claim.

If he had signed before our Minors draft would he then have been eligible for that?

Guys like Lopez, Moncada signed in MLB offseason after our Minors draft has begun, or ended, only eligible for next season's Minors draft - unless reaching Majors in season.

I'm not changing that rule we added last year. If someone isn't paying attention in season and misses submitting an offer after an international signee actually debuts in the big leagues, too bad. It's not the end of the world. Remember, that would have to be an immediate 40-man Majors spot used, as opposed to possibly getting same guy in Minors draft the following season.

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Emailed this to league this morning...

Hey all,
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the board regarding Moncada and other International signees. Taking into consideration all of the feedback and suggestions, I'm going to make a ruling which hopefully is a compromise and we can move on with UFA. If there are still more tweaks that we need to make, we can do that moving forward.

Kang - eligible for UFA. Signed to a major league deal in January after our Minors draft began. Expected to break camp with the big league club. Same scenario as Tanaka last year.

Moncada - not eligible for UFA. Eligible for 2016 Minors draft (unless he reaches Majors during 2015 season, and could then be offered Major League FA contract via blind bid email in-season). He signed last week and is expected to begin at Single A ball.

Yoan Lopez - same as Moncada. Not sure what level he's supposed to begin at.

So if a player signs after our Minors draft, he will be eligible for UFA if signed to a Major League deal BEFORE any of our Free Agency begins (RFA). If player has signed to a Minor League deal and expected to begin in Minors, will be eligible for Minors Draft following season, unless he reaches Majors that first season and can be offered blind FA contract.

Scott

[Drew (Chicago Blue Jays)]

Now that I think about it, MLB actually has a rule that differentiates these guys. The rule regards which guys are included in a team's international signing pool budget vs. guys who are just free agents. So by this logic, guys who are signed with a team's international pool money should be minors guys and guys who are not included in that money should be majors guys. That make sense Scott?

[Scott (Boston Padres)]

Yes, that does make sense. Tanaka last year, Kang this year signed as Major League free agents and not out of that pool money, right?

Moncada and Lopez were signed out of that Intl pool money, so Minors.